Cogs in the TheoryMachine - Starting Legion

Hi guys, I'm back from an awesome second honeymoon and I'm ready to get back into some wargaming and more specifically getting my Legion on the table. Unfortunately it'll be a few more days before I can get a game with them as my club is shut on my regular gaming day this week. Instead I wanted to share some of the list ideas I've been batting about for a little while for where I want my first few lists to go. So this week instead of a Learning Legion Bat Rep I'm bringing you a bumper edition of CitTM to cover a number of different lists and ideas I've been exploring. 

One of the most important questions I asked myself getting into Legion was one that I'm sure loads of people ask themselves too. Where do I start? Now, when I was getting ready to start with Legion one of my first steps was to buy the majority of the warlocks. At this point I have all of them except Bethayne, Kallus and Lylyth3. So. I have choices. My intention is to ease myself into the faction and playing Hordes in general. So I didn't really want to play either Vayl. I know they're both really good (eVayl being one of the most popular overall, competitively) but they both require finesse and I didn't want to jump in the deep end too much. Rhyas is out. She could be good but since she's not the best caster I think she requires more faction knowledge before playing so probably not the best place to start. Also.... Rhyas... Urgh...

This leaves the Abbys, the Thagroshes, the first two Lylyths and Saeryn. I love eLylyth. I think she's awesome and the first few lists I wrote up for Legion were all eLylyth. But. As much as I want to play her and am excited to put her on the board I decided not to start with her. The reason being kinda the opposite of Vayl. While Vayl requires too much finesse Lylyth's game is too narrow and wouldn't give me a decent exposure to the faction as a whole. Plus going from playing Harbinger and pSevvy to fury 5... *shudder*. Epic Thagrosh and Epic Absylonia have the same issue, they like to play one way without much range anywhere else. Saeryn is a really good, solid choice. She's got a strong feat, good spell list, high fury stats. But I decided not to go with her either. To a much lesser extent I think she also requires a bit more faction experience to master. However I do feel that she'll be one of the first 'locks I move to once I feel I've got a decent handle on my play. 

So this cull left me with what I consider the two warlocks best suited to learning the faction: pThagrosh and pAbsylonia. So given that most tournaments use a two list format I think I have my two casters to begin with. So between the two of them I decided to start with pThagrosh. This won't be a surprise for most people since he's considered one of the best learner casters for the faction and the starting point for most new players. Abby is great but I feel she supports beasts almost exclusively, which is awesome and 90% of Legion's game on the table. But I felt to try the faction I wanted a more rounded caster, ending me with pThags. 

So my starting list that I intend to have my first few games with is not very good. It's designed not to be especially competitive but instead to include a variety of Legion models:

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight +5

-Succubus -2

-Ravagore - 10

-Angelius -9

-Scythean -9

-Seraph -8

Nyss Shepherd -1

Nyss Shepherd -1

Forsaken -2

Deathstalker -2

Deathstalker -2

Max Legionnaires -6

Spawning Vessel -3

Objective - Fuel Cashe

This list includes a kind of greatest hits of Legion's models, the beasts are the most used monsters by Legion so this will give me the best chance to test them out. The Legionnaires and Spawning Vessel are another Legion staple I want to experiment with. They'll likely commit some ritual suicide to spawn a shredder early game in order to get tenacity on the board. The Deathstalkers are also a personal favorite of mine having been on the receiving end of their spikey murder bows in a few games. I wasn't set on any of the objectives but with 4 heavy beasts having free run/charge could come in handy. 

So that's the list that I'm planning to use to get a solid grip on the common faction models. But this was hardly the only list I've written for Legion. For starters I made up an Absylonia list to accompany Thagrosh in events. I decided (shockingly) to take her tier list:

Absylonia, Terror of Everblight +5

Tier 4 - Winds of Change 

Naga Nightlurker -5

Typhon -11

Scythean -8

Angelius -8

Angelius -8

Shredder -2

Shredder -2

Harrier -2

Raek -4

Foresaken -2

Foresaken -2

Shepherd -1

Objective - Fuel Cashe

I think this is a pretty standard Absylonia tier 4. There's plenty of heavy hitters in the list who can take real advantage of her fantastic upkeep spells. A pair of Angelii are there to cause problems with Armour Pierce and Repulse. The Naga can help with its animus and cool abilities. This is a list that I'm not 100% on but seems pretty sturdy, of course it's subject to change after I've practiced with some more of the models and synergies. Again Fuel Cashe's free charges are a nice bonus to a mostly beast list. 

I've also written up a prospective list for Thagrosh when I want to be a bit more competitive that may well change when I get more experience:

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight +5

-Succubus -2

-Angelius -9

-Angelius -9

-Carnivean -11

-Naga Nightlurker -5

-Shredder -2

-Shredder -2

Foresaken -2

Foresaken -2

Max Warspears -8

-Warspear Chieftan -2

Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew -1

Objective - Fuel Cashe

This list leverages Attuned Spirit and Spirit Tap along with the powerful animi of the Shredder and Carnivean to make the army very tough to shift off the board. The Ogrun with Draconic Blessing are a nightmare and can be MAT 9/RAT 7 POW 17 monsters with Prey and Assault, which can put a dent into most things they contact. The Naga is also in the list to help with problem causers, while the Gobbers, if I'm honest, are filling points, but can be really helpful to provide some cloud cover, especially to help the Naga use Prowl but stay in a useful position. 

So those are (at the moment) my lists to get me started in Legion. In addition to these, though, I also wrote up a couple of lists to move on from these which are even more subject to change than the others. The first I wrote up is for eLylyth:

Lylyth, Shadow of Everblight +5

-Succubus -2

-Nephilim Bolt Thrower -6

-Ravagore -10

-Ravagore -10

-Naga Nightlurker -5

-Seraph -8

-Shredder -2

-Stinger -2

Deathstalker -2

Deathstalker -2

Foresaken -2

Foresaken -2

Shepherd -1

Shepherd -1

Objective - Bunker 

This is a very shooty, if not very surprising, list that I'm really keen to play. The double Ravagore is powerful as it is but under Lylyth's feat they can be ridiculous. The Naga and Seraph both offer a combination of good animi and ranged attacks that the list can take advantage of. The Deathstalkers are in the list to be extra little mini-Lylyths. I put 4 of the support solos and the Succubus into the list to compensate for Lylyth's low Fury stat. One of the weird aspects that might surprise some people is the Stinger. He has a decent ranged attack if it comes to it but more importantly he's in there to allow Lylyth to take advantage of his animus to gain Bushwack for mega shenanigans. I chose the Bunker objective to avoid my side of the table being blasted away. 

Finally I've knocked together a tentative Saeryn list that's quite speculative at this point but from a relatively ignorant stand point seems pretty good to me. It includes:

Saeryn, Omen of Everblight +5

-Angelius -9

-Angelius -9

-Scythean -9

-Scythean -9

-Naga Nightlurker -5

-Raek -4

-Shredder -2

Shepherd -1

Shepherd -1

Foresaken -2

Foresaken -2

Spell Martyr -1

Spell Martyr -1

This is my doubles list, the pairs of heavy beasts are good beatsticks and benefit from the feat well. The support staff take some of the pressure off Saeryn and have some built in redundancy if a couple of them die. The Naga is a useful tool for any list in my opinion since it offers some helpful tricks that can make up some of Legion's deficits. The Raek (and in a pinch the Shredder with rabid) is a great delivery method for Blight Bringer thanks to leap. 

It should be pretty clear from all my theory crafting how excited I am for a shift into Legion and it's long overdue. I've already got my first game lined up and hopefully that'll just add to the momentum going forwards. 

Don't forget, for regular updates, photos and more like 'Mitsuharu on Minis' on Facebook at https://m.facebook.com/Mitsuharuonminis!

-M

Cogs in the TheoryMachine - April Alt List

Hi guys, welcome back to CitTM! This week I didn't manage to get a game in thanks to the Easter Weekend and my LGS being closed. Instead I've been theory crafting a new list. With the April tournament up in a couple of weeks I've been thinking about my list options. Obviously I want to play Harbinger and I've been practicing the list for a while now. I was initially planning to use this alongside my eFeora list I used in the last tournament. Instead though I wanted to use a new list that would shore up some of the weaknesses of the Harbinger list. The issue that I've found in a couple of my recent games with Harbinger is dealing with heavy armour. My Harbinger list attritions really well vs infantry between the feat, cataclysm and the weaponmaster jam she can eat through a dudespam pretty easily. When facing a colossal or multiple heavies, though, she stumbles cracking that armour. Instead I wrote up an alternative list skewed towards hitting hard but that can also deal with troops if needed. 

What I ended up with is:

pSeverius +6

-Heirophant -2

-Blessings of Vengence -7

-Reckoner -8

-Templar -8

Vessel of Judgement -9

Vassal Mechanic -1

Vassal of Menoth -2

Wrack -1

eEiryss -3

Gorman Di Wulfe -2

Saxon Orrik -2

Max Choir of Menoth -3

Max Temple Flameguard with UA -8

Objective - Bunker 

The idea for this list is pretty straight-forward smash-mouth aggression. The Templar, Reckoner and VoJ can smash high ARM especially with Eye of Menoth and Gorman can make that worse with black oil and rust bombs as appropriate. As well as that, though, Ashes to Ashes and Admonisher can still blow through infantry, which BoV will help with.

The TFG with Defender's Ward become a horrible tar pit to deal with potentially being DEF 17 ARM 23 and no knockdown with minifeat. Orrik is in the list to help them get to the fight through any difficult terrain and then to hunt solos afterwards. Eyriss is in the list to take out any pesky upkeep spells that might otherwise be a pain in the ass for the list. 

The support package is pretty full on, with a max choir for my three jacks, as well as a Vassal and a Mechanic to support the jacks fully. The main job for the mechanic, though, will be to repair the self-inflicted damage on the Vessel. To help with the focus management (8 doesn't stretch too far with two hungry jacks and an awesome spell list) I've got Wracks and a Heirophant to take some of the heat off. 

Since the list wants to play an aggressive in-your-face style game I'm currently thinking Bunker might be the best objective for the list since Impervious Flesh makes it hard to kill at range, forcing the opponent to close in with me. But Fuel Cache is in the running too as the jacks having free charges could make all the difference in a game!

I'll be sure to let you know how my first game with it goes next week! Like the facebook page for updates as I go!

-M

Cogs in the TheoryMachine

Hi all, and welcome back to the latest installation of Cogs in the TheoryMachine! Following the Valentines Massacre results from a week ago, I decided I needed to get more practice with some of the more traditionally tournament viable casters for the faction. I'm pretty ok with my eFeora play, and I got a decent run through with both pSeverius and pKreoss when I started playing Menoth. The caster I really wanted to get to grips with, though, was Harbinger.

I don't think that there would be any argument that she's one of the best casters in Menoth, and probably the game as a whole. Having said that she can be tricky to play, and I have very limited experience playing with her. In fact if you skim back through the archives I took her to a Tournament at the Outpost last year with a single practice game and got fairly consistently schooled using her against more experienced oppenents. To overcome this I've decided that now is the time to get a handle on her starting by playing her for the next few weeks until I feel confident enough with her. 

The list

The Harbinger of Menoth +5

-Heirophant -2

-Reckoner -8

-Devout -5

Minimum Choir -2

Wracks -1

Vassal of Menoth -2

Maximum Exemplar Errants with UA -10

Exemplar Errant Seneschal -2

Rhupert Carvolo -2

Covenant of Menoth -2

Minimum Holy Zealots with UA -6

Maximum Exemplar Bastions -8

Dartan Vilmon -3

Paladin of the Order of the Wall -2

Objective: Fuel Cache

The idea with this list is all control and denial. The Errant package (Max Errants with UA, Seneschal, Rhupert and Covenant) is designed to be a massive pain for my opponent to get rid of while also dishing out a reasonable amount of damage to clear zones etc. with Hunter Quick Work shots from charging weaponmasters. The Zealots are also in the list for zone control, jamming and obviously super-fun bomb throwing japes. The Bastions form a second wave to counter attack whatever's left from the rest of the grind in the list, adding in a hard to shift force that can polish off any troublemakers. The Devout is in the list to offer squishy Harbinger some protection from ranged, while the Reckoner is there to handle any heavy ARM that comes up. The support package is the deluxe edition with choir, wracks, vassal and a Heirophant. Then finally Dartan and his little brother are in the list to offer an immovable object to sit on flags and in zones and simply not die. Add in all of Harbingers cool native abilities (Awe for the pseudo DEF buff, FOCUS 10 for... being awesome, and obviously martyrdom) and the list becomes hard to kill and pretty heavy hitting on the retaliation. 

Test Game 

Ok. Full disclosure: I did actually already use this list and I was going to write it up as a bat rep... but the game went long and the store was literally closing around us at the time, so it didn't end properly and I didn't feel like it reflected how the game was going. I played against a Legion list that included pThagrosh with a Carnivean, Angelius and Scythean, along with a max unit of Legionnaires, a max Spawning vessel, the Black Frost Shard, a Foresaken, a shepherd and a Throne. We played Two Fronts from the 2015 Steamroller. 

My list out attritioned throughout the game, wiping out swathes of Legion models, including killing all the heavies (and one twice). The Reckoner in particular was very effective, using Enliven and Assault to dodge charges from a heavy and then one round it in the next turn. The Errants did a great job of making a nuisance of themselves while also whittling down the Legionaries. I wiped out the majority of the force and survived a couple of long shot assassination attempts along the way. By the last real turn his force was a Harrier with one box, a shredder, the Throne, Thagrosh, a mostly dead Carnivean and the Blackfrost Shard, while I had only lost about half the Errants along with all the Zealots, and only had a single model (the Harrier) stopping me from controlling the opposing zone.

I was in a commanding position and could easily have gotten Harby to a safe position from which I could continue to attrition and ultimately win on scenario, which is what I would have done normally, but as the store was closing and we had to get finished, I instead went for the cool option of charging the Throne with Harbinger to remove the last big threat. I used a boosted Cataclysm and a couple of melee attacks to hurt it and then poured damage onto it, and the Reckoner killed the Carnivean. The Throne was left on 1 box when I was done, and so I allowed him to take his turn, and he managed to kill Harbinger using every model he had left on the table to pull it off. It's a shame that we didn't have more time to be able to play the game out properly as I feel if I played it safe I was in a strong position to win the game within a couple more turns. More importantly I felt that this game gave me a good chance to play around with her abilities and use them effectively in a real game. 

I'm really looking forward to having a another practice with her to hone my experience a little further. I'll be sure to tell you all about it as it happens!

Stay tuned for more, and don't forget to like Mitsuharu on Minis on Facebook for more updates!

-M

Cogs in the TheoryMachine - List Developments

Hi everyone, this week is a new segment called 'Cogs in the TheoryMachine' where I'll be discussing list building, tactical ideas and other miscellaneous meta gaming I'm doing. This first week will be focusing on my latest list ideas and tactical concepts I'm developing for the Menoth lists I'm planning to bring to the local Hull Warmachine monthly tournament in February. 

The first list I'll be using is the Intercessor Kreoss list I've been developing over the last few weeks, which has undergone a much bigger shift following my last game against Nick. This started out as quite a heavy list that mashed armour but struggled against infantry swarms. I like a good skew list as much as the next guy but in a more competitive setting versatility is always the heart of the game. Luckily I felt that the two games I've had (both of which were very infantry heavy) the list didn't perform too badly and so isn't exactly auto-lose as is. Having said that I'm hoping that with a few changes it'll be much more well rounded. What I've got so far is:

Intercessor Kreoss +5

-Vanquisher -8

-Reckoner -8

Min Choir -2

Vassal of Menoth -2

Nicia, Tear of Vengence -3

Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord -2

Covenant of Menoth -2

Wracks -1

Vassal Mechanic -1

Daughters of Menoth -5

Max Exemplar Vengers -11

Max Exemplar Errants with UA -10

This list has sacrificed the quality of the Avatar for the quantity of Errants. The Errants are in the list for two reasons, firstly to tag with Rhupert to create a Tough unit that's hard to shift from contesting, and also to pump out attacks between weaponmaster melee and quick work, hopefully balancing the list more vs infantry. To further throw a spanner in the works the Covenant of Menoth can also stop the Errants that do tough from being knocked down, making them a real pain for my opponent. Maintaining the Menoth Jam the Daughters with Holy Ward are very hard for anyone who can't boost, and even then they've got a decent chance of dodging a hit. With the Errants in the list the Vengers are freed up to be able to move around to be wherever they're most needed, keeping them in reserve. Hopefully this means they can hit where they can do most damage. Nicia is in the list to help deal with troublesome solos. The two jacks along with the vassals and choir are an obvious choice, both having good ranged attacks as well as decent melee options, and both can make good use of Warpath. 

The really interesting question in 2015 is which of the objectives goes best with the list? Arcane Wonder seems like a good option, but I find that Kreoss is either up keeping or allocating and even though he has lots of upkeeps he doesn't need the focus assist much anyway. Effigy of Valour and Armoury aren't much use to this list. Stockpile is nice but Covenant covers most of that functionality. Fuel Cashe is a nice ability that the list can use well but I'd prefer it in my second list and don't want to repeat myself where possible. So that leaves Bunker. This one has Impervious Flesh, making it more difficult to destroy at range, forcing the enemy to move towards my force, potentially giving me a greater chance for a strong first strike. Also this objective has the Girded ability, making this a nice out for my Daughters:- by jamming this objective it removes one of their biggest weaknesses in blast damage making their DEF 17 daunting to overcome. So I think Bunker's the way to go. 

Now the second list I'm planning to use has changed a couple of times too, without being played, mainly because of character restrictions having an effect when I made changes to my Kreoss list. List two is an eFeora list:

eFeora +6

-Bonded Judicator -18

-Reckoner -8

Vassal of Menoth -2

Wracks -1

Vassal Mechanic -1

Eiryss, Angel of Retribution -3

Dartan Vilmon -3

Saxon Orrik -2

Gorman Di Wulfe -2

Min Choir -2 

Max TFG with UA -8

Min Zealots with UA -6

This list is a very different build to the Kreoss list, but is based on more solid principles, and a playstyle that I've had more practice with. The TFG and Zealots are in the list with a dual purpose, firstly they jam the board and generally make a nuisance of themselves, being hard to shift out of zones or away from flags (Dartan is in the list to compound this further). Secondly on their mini-feat turns the TFG can poke each other with flame pikes with little chance of killing and the zealots can bathe in Judicator flamethrower to get a whole bunch of cont. fire on the board for Feora to play with using her own feat. Saxon Orrik is in the list to dole out pathfinder to the TFG who are slow enough without getting trapped in difficult terrain. Gorman and Eiryss are in the list to generally cause my opponent issues. The choir, wrack and vassal options are all fairly standard to support the jack load out. In this list I opted for the Judicator as a collosal is always fun to put on the table, and Feora's warjack bond only cranks that all the way up to 11. I've heard stories of casters being set on fire in turn one of a game with running and an ancilliary attack from a vassal. The Reckoner is in the list as a secondary jack, and is more than capable of using the flare on its gun to offer an assist to the Judicator before a charge against a higher DEF enemy. On top of that the Reckoner is a powerful and versatile option in its own right. 

Unlike the Kreoss list I had a good idea which objective I was planning to use with this list as soon as SR2015 hit. Fuel Cashe. This gives jacks starting their activation within 4" a free run or charge, helping with focus efficiency for Feora, who sometimes feels starved on key turns. But the real reason, if I'm honest is that I couldn't resist the thematic benefits of making a list where even the objective can set my enemy on fire! 

These are the lists as they stand at the moment, though they are, of course, subject to change when they hit the board. My biggest concern at the moment is that the Feora list will be too large to get through on timed turns (that and the fact that I don't actually have a Saxon Orrik model yet). At the moment though these are two lists that I feel relatively confident with and am looking forward to using on the table. Hopefully I'll be able to report some success come February!

-M